What are some creators saying about the Meyer/Waid controversy?
4 Comments Published by Avi Green on Wednesday, May 16, 2018 at 9:59 AM.
Might as well look and see what any creators are saying about Mark Waid's reprehensible and potentially illegal act against Richard Meyer. For example, we have Ron Marz:
Oh please. Their "coverage" has long borne too few positives and far too many negatives. I don't take items like these from BC at automatic face value. But if this is how Marz feels, then hilarious he's taken a job working on some of Aspen Comics' products like Fathom, because the fancy artwork it was known for is just the kind of concepts Meyer's often defended.
He's got it backwards. Not that falsehoods will make much of a dent at this point.
Since Marz is the topic in focus for the umpteenth time, I might as well add a few of his political blabberings like this one:
So Marz can't even thank the USA for moving its embassy to Jerusalem, something the more sensible people in this country have campaigned to have done for many years. Shameful. Now, look what he wrote 4 times:
You're right, Marz. So if this is another assault on Meyer, the consequence will be that some people won't be buying your work on Fathom no matter the quality of scripting, and Meyer may not recommend it either, as your words are bound to discourage. Personally, I hope Aspen gets a clue and removes Marz from their books, because he's only turning their business into a joke.
There's also a writer named Ken Lowery:
I think Ken should just let it go, because it's not doing comicdom any favors.
This may not be fully related, but I think I'll have to add Nicola Scott to the mix:
I don't understand why somebody whose Wonder Woman art was rejected by the UN suddenly wants to take an article like that at face value. As a Comicsgate supporter myself, I defend the character designs she was working on, and it's a pity she's making it difficult by siding with that stupid tripe written by people who aren't really comics fans.
This is definitely no surprise by now.
The idea behind Comicsgate was to defend some of the ideas Kurt was known for providing in his Avengers run, for example (hot women and well-paced stories that aren't watered down to suit an audience that isn't there), and today he embraces the very demonstrators seen early in the run demanding that more heroes of different race be allowed into their ranks, as though they weren't open to them already, with Black Panther being a prominent example. Busiek can blabber all he likes, but the chances he'll get steady jobs anew at the majors are pretty minor at this point. Besides, Kurt's said things/taken positions women wouldn't like.
But maybe the worst example is Patrick Zircher, who's fallen back on more bad bias, and here when Meyer once spoke positively about him a few months ago:
Umm, the information came from a Reddit posting, so it's not like we know for sure whether Waid was punished by Marvel. But hey, if it's such a big deal, go ask C.B. Cebulski and see what gives.
If the two women he speaks of happen to actually be two men - namely, the above examples (one of whose actual name is Brian) - then I'm not sure why he says two women, save for PC he can't bring himself to rise above. Of course, if he's talking, say, about the "milkshakers", it's not like they're innocent. But if he thinks they are, he could at least explain what the topic was and why he believes Meyer was wrong. Disappointingly enough, he ignores the seriousness of Perez's own antics. He and another tweeter then brought Ethan Van Sciver into the conversation:
Curious why he doesn't address the case of Darryl Ayo and Tim Doyle's hostilities. He could've at least admitted they wronged him, but Zircher evidently doesn't have the guts.
And how come he doesn't admit to one of his biggest mistakes besides his leftist leanings, that being his backing for Identity Crisis, and sugarcoating the story he illustrated in Nightwing 93 where the Tarantula forced herself on the former Teen Wonder? A story which Devin Grayson now disowns, remarkably enough. Say, how come Zircher doesn't admit it's a mistake to associate with writers as overrated and awful as Brad Meltzer and Brian Bendis either? A real shame he won't admit both Big Two made big mistakes on their part.
We didn't fly into a tizzy because Bobbi Morse was depicted as a feminist. We did because the script in the abortive solo book made Bobbi look like a cheating murderess. And nobody cares that Chelsea Cain took an approach that's actually hurtful to women, not even Zircher? Sigh.
Thank goodness there was one voice of sanity who can be added here besides Van Sciver:
And Dixon is somebody whom Zircher et al haven't exactly defended, for that matter. Which is a real shame, because there's so much he's proven capable of, and I'm sure if you gave him a more sci-fi oriented title like Superman, he could work wonders on that as much as Batman, but no, DC has to yield to Bendis instead.
Those creators who're attacking Meyer would do well to just ignore him and act like he doesn't exist, because in the end, all they'll have done is boost him more and more, encouraging more audience to check him out. Is that what they truly want if they have such a problem with him?
Lord knows I am no fan of Bleeding Cool, but credit where credit is due. This is a comprehensive account of the weekend's kerfuffle, with context, screen caps and direct quotes. Well done. https://t.co/X88F9u4Wmn— Ron Marz (@ronmarz) May 14, 2018
Oh please. Their "coverage" has long borne too few positives and far too many negatives. I don't take items like these from BC at automatic face value. But if this is how Marz feels, then hilarious he's taken a job working on some of Aspen Comics' products like Fathom, because the fancy artwork it was known for is just the kind of concepts Meyer's often defended.
Not that facts, quotes or a dose of reality will make much of a dent. This has always been about monetizing resentment and social isolation, so anything that conflicts with that narrative is cast aside.— Ron Marz (@ronmarz) May 14, 2018
He's got it backwards. Not that falsehoods will make much of a dent at this point.
Since Marz is the topic in focus for the umpteenth time, I might as well add a few of his political blabberings like this one:
Jared Kushner sounds like the awkward salutatorian that everybody hated at your high school graduation. https://t.co/Kgd7i5M7Ai— Ron Marz (@ronmarz) May 14, 2018
So Marz can't even thank the USA for moving its embassy to Jerusalem, something the more sensible people in this country have campaigned to have done for many years. Shameful. Now, look what he wrote 4 times:
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.— Ron Marz (@ronmarz) May 14, 2018
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.
You're right, Marz. So if this is another assault on Meyer, the consequence will be that some people won't be buying your work on Fathom no matter the quality of scripting, and Meyer may not recommend it either, as your words are bound to discourage. Personally, I hope Aspen gets a clue and removes Marz from their books, because he's only turning their business into a joke.
There's also a writer named Ken Lowery:
Watching Diversity & Comics launch yet another harassment campaign, so, again, to any pros or pro-adjacents who flatter them in any way: your peers see you for what you are.— Ken Lowery (@kenlowery) May 10, 2018
I think Ken should just let it go, because it's not doing comicdom any favors.
This may not be fully related, but I think I'll have to add Nicola Scott to the mix:
Be better people please. https://t.co/MKV8YrUfcv— ⚡️Nicola Scott⚡️ (@NicolaScottArt) May 12, 2018
I don't understand why somebody whose Wonder Woman art was rejected by the UN suddenly wants to take an article like that at face value. As a Comicsgate supporter myself, I defend the character designs she was working on, and it's a pity she's making it difficult by siding with that stupid tripe written by people who aren't really comics fans.
Your reminder that this is the man @AntarcticPress has decided to publish. https://t.co/5f5ezFiXIE— Our Lady of Perpetual Anxiety (@MagsVisaggs) May 10, 2018
This is definitely no surprise by now.
Just saw someone arguing that giving a publisher grief because Diversity & Comics said mean things is unfair gatekeeping, and I’m a little gobsmacked.— Kurt Busiek Resists (@KurtBusiek) May 10, 2018
Isn’t that most of the idea behind ComicsGate? Going after publishers because freelancers said/wrote something they didn’t like?
The idea behind Comicsgate was to defend some of the ideas Kurt was known for providing in his Avengers run, for example (hot women and well-paced stories that aren't watered down to suit an audience that isn't there), and today he embraces the very demonstrators seen early in the run demanding that more heroes of different race be allowed into their ranks, as though they weren't open to them already, with Black Panther being a prominent example. Busiek can blabber all he likes, but the chances he'll get steady jobs anew at the majors are pretty minor at this point. Besides, Kurt's said things/taken positions women wouldn't like.
But maybe the worst example is Patrick Zircher, who's fallen back on more bad bias, and here when Meyer once spoke positively about him a few months ago:
I changed my mind.— Patch Zircher (@PatrickZircher) May 13, 2018
I can't resist saying it: Richard Meyers is a lying piece of shit.
He insulted, vulgarly, two women I've worked with. As generous and talented as anyone you'd want to work with.— Patch Zircher (@PatrickZircher) May 13, 2018
And he made up the Waid-punished-by-Marvel stuff ( I've also worked with Mark).
That's enough. https://t.co/W5VQ2H0iRS
Umm, the information came from a Reddit posting, so it's not like we know for sure whether Waid was punished by Marvel. But hey, if it's such a big deal, go ask C.B. Cebulski and see what gives.
I try to be a rational guy.— Patch Zircher (@PatrickZircher) May 14, 2018
Mags and Michelle were speaking passionately about issues important to them. They were frequently harassed. There are people who pestered them.
No one has to get into with Mags or Michelle, certainly no one has to make videos attacking them. https://t.co/W0TrG85mbb
If the two women he speaks of happen to actually be two men - namely, the above examples (one of whose actual name is Brian) - then I'm not sure why he says two women, save for PC he can't bring himself to rise above. Of course, if he's talking, say, about the "milkshakers", it's not like they're innocent. But if he thinks they are, he could at least explain what the topic was and why he believes Meyer was wrong. Disappointingly enough, he ignores the seriousness of Perez's own antics. He and another tweeter then brought Ethan Van Sciver into the conversation:
Okay, why do you support Meyers, Ethan? Given his comments about our colleagues?— Patch Zircher (@PatrickZircher) May 14, 2018
"sucked her way into the comic industry"
"is a fucking fag"
"is a cum dumpster"
"is a fucking crazy person"
This isn't how we work with each other in this business. https://t.co/sbBJOR3fMD
I agree. But personal attacks are coming harder from the other direction. I’ve never seen or experienced anything like it. I’ve chosen to side against the people who are lying about me.— ComicArtistPro Secrets (@EthanVanSciver) May 14, 2018
I think you've made a mistake. You're not going to change anyone's mind by aligning with someone as hateful as Meyers. https://t.co/3BAMIslJqR— Patch Zircher (@PatrickZircher) May 14, 2018
Curious why he doesn't address the case of Darryl Ayo and Tim Doyle's hostilities. He could've at least admitted they wronged him, but Zircher evidently doesn't have the guts.
And how come he doesn't admit to one of his biggest mistakes besides his leftist leanings, that being his backing for Identity Crisis, and sugarcoating the story he illustrated in Nightwing 93 where the Tarantula forced herself on the former Teen Wonder? A story which Devin Grayson now disowns, remarkably enough. Say, how come Zircher doesn't admit it's a mistake to associate with writers as overrated and awful as Brad Meltzer and Brian Bendis either? A real shame he won't admit both Big Two made big mistakes on their part.
People are trying to make my comments last night about politics.— Patch Zircher (@PatrickZircher) May 14, 2018
No one is locked out because of politics. I know because of who I've worked with.
But if 'politics' preclude that you can't work with women & LGBT, then You have made it an obstacle.
You have 'victimized' yourself.
If you went into a rage because a hero like Mockingbird is feminist, you've got the matches in your hand.— Patch Zircher (@PatrickZircher) May 14, 2018
Man up. https://t.co/LjMrYNTdqX
We didn't fly into a tizzy because Bobbi Morse was depicted as a feminist. We did because the script in the abortive solo book made Bobbi look like a cheating murderess. And nobody cares that Chelsea Cain took an approach that's actually hurtful to women, not even Zircher? Sigh.
Thank goodness there was one voice of sanity who can be added here besides Van Sciver:
I support free speech. https://t.co/3aCuDqVfb4
— Chuck Dixon (@Dixonverse) May 12, 2018
And Dixon is somebody whom Zircher et al haven't exactly defended, for that matter. Which is a real shame, because there's so much he's proven capable of, and I'm sure if you gave him a more sci-fi oriented title like Superman, he could work wonders on that as much as Batman, but no, DC has to yield to Bendis instead.
Those creators who're attacking Meyer would do well to just ignore him and act like he doesn't exist, because in the end, all they'll have done is boost him more and more, encouraging more audience to check him out. Is that what they truly want if they have such a problem with him?
Labels: dc comics, indie publishers, marvel comics, misogyny and racism, moonbat artists, moonbat writers, msm propaganda, politics, violence
“You're right, Marz. So if this is another assault on Meyer, the consequence will be that some people won't be buying your work on Fathom no matter the quality of scripting, and Meyer may not recommend it either, as your words are bound to discourage. Personally, I hope Aspen gets a clue and removes Marz from their books, because he's only turning their business into a joke.”
“Isn’t that most of the idea behind ComicsGate? Going after publishers because freelancers said/wrote something they didn’t like?” – Kurt Busiek
Sounds like Kurt got that right.
No, he didn't. ComicsGate wants to bring back good stories that are devoid of partisan politics. Looks like we have another anonymous troll who hasn't bothered to do his research.
The #comicsdenigrate people have a number of goals, some of them contradictory:
1) make comics apolitical;
2) bring back to writing and drawing comics politically correct right wingers, like Chuck Dixon, who deliver a right wing political perspective to some of their stories;
3) call out and boycott comic book creators who bring a left-wing or social justice perspective to some of their stories
4) call out and boycott comic book creators whose work is apolitical, but whose social media presence demonstrates a left-wing or social justice or anti-Trump perspective (like Avi’s comments about Marz, up above).
1) and 2) contradict each other; 3) and 4) are signs of trolling and harassment, an impression reinforced by the choice to label themselves with a name that rhymes with #gamergate.
Chuck Dixon, by the way, does not deserve to be identified with #comicsdenigrate; he is an individualistic conservative who has said he does not believe in boycotts and enemies lists.
I think it's time you troll a liberal blog instead. You'll find like-minded people there.